# Virgin puts cat amongst JustGiving pigeons - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/ - Published: 2009-04-14T11:32:13+01:00 - Author: Bryan Miller **Virgin announced the [launch of Virgin Money Giving](http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/News/FundraisingBulletin/897951/Virgins-charity-fundraising-site-will-undercut-Justgiving/2A114D5A81150F5D9454F89D71BB27AF/?DCMP=EMC-FundraisingBulletin) to a mixed response from the sector.** Predictably, some believe that grubby commercial brands should not be involved with offering these services.  Others believe that any service which encourages people to give and fundraise for as many causes as possible is a positive step forward. Personally I have no issue with brands like Virgin helping me to both donate and fundraise.  The more innovation the sector experiences, hopefully, the more it will become the norm rather than the exception (which, some notable exceptions aside, is too often how it seems in my humble opinion). ## Advertisement That said, there might be a couple of concerns to consider: 1. Commercial brands like Virgin have a fairly tried and tested business model for entry into a new market space; penetration pricing.  This means a low initial charging structure which has the potential to be increased once a following is built and we are all too tied in to worry about the rigmarole of changing back to [JustGiving](https://fundraising.co.uk/2016/03/16/justgiving-hmrc-agreement-restoring-lost-gift-aid-family-donations/). 2. Virgin has other sources of revenue to subsidise this low charging structure and I simply don’t know enough to say whether JustGiving can compete financially I hope there is enough room in the sector for both to continue to innovate and help charities of all types over the medium to long term.  If this is the case, both JustGiving and Virgin should spur each other on to come up with the next round of great ideas for the rest of us to utilise. If Virgin’s aims are perhaps more short term, however, why would any charity, during a recession, pay 72% higher charges than they need to and stay with JustGiving?  Perhaps a certain amount of scepticism about Virgin’s motives may prevent JustGiving’s customer base from leaving in droves. * **[JustGiving’s CEO wins Albert Medal ‘for democratising fundraising’](https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/justgiving039s-ceo-wins-albert-medal-039for-democratising-fundraising039/)**( 14 April 2009) * **[JustGiving to compensate charities for website problems](https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/06/25/justgiving-compensate-charities-website-problems/)**( 25 June 2009) * **[Facebook Connect now available on JustGiving](https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/09/18/facebook-connect-now-available-justgiving/)**( 18 September 2009) ![Loading](https://fundraising.co.uk/wp-content/plugins/page-views-count/ajax-loader- 2x.gif) ## Comments ### By: jk - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/#comment-3605 - Published: 2009-04-14T12:59:06+01:00 Virgin Money Giving’s web site says that this is a non profit making venture where any “profits” will be given back to charities in future fee reductions. This should mean the price will come down, or at least be seen to truly reflect the cost of the service. It might also bring some transparency into the fee and cost structure of all the participants in this market. ### By: SoP - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/#comment-3606 - Published: 2009-04-14T15:05:22+01:00 I have always had a good customer experience when I have dealt with the Virgin brand, and it’s great that they will be running this as a non-profit. this should be a really good service for charities. ### By: admin - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/#comment-3607 - Published: 2009-04-14T15:31:57+01:00 Can’t say I share your positive experience of always having had a good customer experience of all the Virgin companies. Most recently, by way of an example, my Virgin Trains journey from London to Glasgow was 45 mins late arriving, and we were not given much information as we sat outside Rugby… No doubt it was nothing to do with Virgin itself, but Virgin could have given us customers/passengers more information. Ironically, it subsequently took several more minutes to get off the platform at Glasgow Central because Mr Branson himself was there, dressed as a railway porter, taking part in some promotional film. Anyway, sticking to fundraising. Big brands will have their followers, but do you have any experience (professional, rather than personal) of Virgin’s level of service to charities? I disagree that running a service on a non-profit basis is necessarily‘ a good thing’. Incidentally, you don’t indicate whom you represent. Can I just check (as forum administrator) that you don’t have any professional relationship with Virgin or one of its companies? Apologies if you don’t, but we do from time to time get people using this forum to promote a particular organisation without indicating that they have a link to them. Thank you. ### By: jonathanwaddingham - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/#comment-3608 - Published: 2009-04-15T11:00:07+01:00 Speaking on behalf of Justgiving we’d like to welcome Virgin Money Giving. The field of online fundraising is wide and deep enough for a variety of players to thrive. Kevin, you hope that both Justgiving and Virgin Money Giving will ‘continue to innovate’. I can’t comment about VMG’s plans obviously, but our belief is that it is precisely the for-profit nature of Justgiving that has enabled it to innovate by investing, and continuing to invest, millions of pounds into our service for the benefit of charities. Howard, I totally agree with you that running a service on a non-profit basis is not \*necessarily\* a good thing. Sustainable innovation requires sustainable revenues and profits – at Justgiving we have ploughed all our profits back into the business, making us no different from other social enterprises or charities out there. In the final analysis, charities will select an online partner that can serve them best over the long term, and we at Justgiving will continue to do that. We will help them not only raise more money, but also strengthen their brand online, create new fundraising tools for their supporters and streamline their data flows. Most importantly, we’ll treat their supporters’ data with the utmost respect. By its very name, Virgin Money Giving is a promotional vehicle for a financial services brand. Charity giving is not a marketing opportunity for us at Justgiving, it is our sole purpose. Jonathan Waddingham Charity champion Justgiving dd 020 7067 0923 email [jonathan@justgiving.com](https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/jonathan@justgiving.com#comment-3608) 6-7 St Cross St, London, EC1N 8UA [http://www.justgiving.com](http://www.justgiving.com) ### By: kevin baughen - Link: https://fundraising.co.uk/2009/04/14/virgin-puts-cat-amongst-just-giving-pigeons/#comment-3609 - Published: 2009-04-15T11:10:16+01:00 Couldn’t agree with you more Jonathan. Profit isn’t a dirty word, it’s what we do with it that counts! Kevin Baughen is the founder of Bottom Line Ideas (www.bottomlineideas.com) and a volunteer speaker for Cancer Research UK